#2 | Why is Primark so irresistible?

Join us in today’s episode for our inaugural Tea Time, where we spill the tea (one of us quite literally) on ourselves about shopping at Primark.

Tune in to hear about our Primark struggles, our thoughts on fast fashion (and fast retail in general), the greyness of it all, and ways to start giving (more of) a sh*t today.

Links and resources:

More than you ever wanted to know about peppermint tea
With a knock on the door, Egypt aims to turn families greener
The correct pronunciation of Primark
Shelbizleee on Youtube (and her video specifically about the problem with sustainable brands and their lack of size inclusivity)
The True Cost
The troubling evolution of corporate greenwashing
Climate change: Seven ways to spot businesses greenwashing
How to Tell if a Fashion Brand is Green — or Just Greenwashing
Write to brands
Ethical Consumer
Certified B Corporation
No-buy month/year/whatever works for you
Free things to do instead of shopping
The Two Major Problems The Secondhand Industry Is Facing (That We Have The Power To Solve!)
More documentaries (about minimalism)

Transcript

Note: This transcript is mostly unedited.

Brandee 0:04

Hello and welcome to the tea on sustainable living podcast where your hosts, Hannah, and Brandee try and help each other navigate the big messy gray area of giving a shit about the planet and hopefully helping you along the way.

Hannah 0:16

Each episode we have honest chats about our sustainability fails, sometimes amongst ourselves and sometimes with guests, while also leaving you with a little sprinkle of hope and inspiration to keep on giving a shit.

Brandee 0:28

So go make yourself a cup of tea, get comfy, and let’s dive into the episode. Hello giver. shitters This is Brandee.

Hannah 0:36

And this is Hannah.

Brandee 0:37

And you’re listening to episode number two of the tea on sustainable living podcast.

Hannah 0:42

Yes, you are. We made it to episode two. Yeah, excited.

Brandee 0:46

Very exciting, because this is our inaugural tea time.

Hannah 0:48

Yep. And that means that we’re here sipping a lovely cup of tea. Do you want to tell me what kind of tea you’re drinking?

Brandee 0:57

Yes, we are drinking. We are both drinking peppermint tea.

Hannah 0:59

Are we? Yeah, we are I don’t know why I asked what we’re drinking.

Brandee 1:04

Well you haven’t had much of yours yet.

Hannah 1:06

No, I haven’t I just spill it all over the table. But that’s fine.

Brandee 1:10

So it wasn’t on any of the technical stuff. Yeah,

Hannah 1:13

Brandee would definitely have killed me if that was the case. And because it’s our tea time, we thought we would talk about sustainability project that’s linked to one of the countries that produces this tea that we are drinking. So Brandee, can you tell me about a fun project from one of the countries that produces peppermint tea?

The Tea On Sustainable Living 1:37

Yep. So peppermint tea is actually a hybrid meant very important information between waterman and spearmint. And indigenous to Europe and Middle East. And apparently Morocco produces the most peppermint or at least they did in 2014. So that didn’t help me pin down a country sun and I found another article, King and Queen dot com. The first record of peppermint tea usage is from Ancient Egyptians when they found some dried peppermint tea leaves and various pyramids back in 1000 BC.

Hannah 2:08

With the Egyptian found the dried tea leaves, or the archaeologists have found dry tea leaves.

Brandee 2:15

The ancient Egyptians? I don’t know. The quote, the first regular peppermint tea usage can be seen from Ancient Egyptians when they found some dried peppermint tea leaves and various pyramids way back in 1000 BC,

Hannah 2:29

huh. All right. So to me that sounds like the ancient Egyptians were robbing the tombs of even ancient Egyptians. I think we’re going off on a tangent here. I will be confused later. But right now you’re going to tell me about modern day a dip? So is that right?

Brandee 2:48

Yes. From what I found back in 2020, he just started stepping up their efforts to preserve their environment and address climate change through measures as diverse as introducing electric buses, boosting renewable energy and trying to ban plastic bags. That was a quote from the article. And how they did this was awareness campaigns by going around knocking, knocking door to door and they were targeting, focusing on trying to talk to the women in the house. Because according to the article, the women, this can be a whole separate conversations are the ones who do cleaning and deal with the food. And so they were talking to them about ways to cut food waste, reducing energy costs. One of the questions they asked when they knock on the doors, where does your trash go? And one of the answers in the article was a landfill that opened up a discussion about what they can do better. So grassroots

Hannah 3:37

effort. Now that sounds really cool. No, I definitely think the reason why we wanted to do this section is it’s so important to remember that there are already so many efforts and so many actions on both the like small and large scale that are ongoing. So I guess starting out all have a little bit of hope.

Brandee 3:56

Yeah, it’s nice to have the good the good news, because you hear all the bad. The bad stuff, and then all the time I felt left thinking well, now what?

Hannah 4:04

Yeah, now that you drink your tea,

Brandee 4:07

I also want you to spill the tea on yourself. Now you already spilled the tea for the evening.

Hannah 4:13

I did I already spoke at the point was that we

Brandee 4:15

wouldn’t actually spill tea.

Hannah 4:17

Yeah, well, you know, sometimes I take things literally.

Brandee 4:21

So yes. The I guess the genesis of this podcast episode was started back in the summer before we even had the idea for the podcast when we took a trip to Primark.

Hannah 4:33

Absolutely, yes, it definitely should be Primark, not Primark, not Primark, not pretty mad. No, I

Brandee 4:41

can’t say it like that. Primark, Primark, we went to Primark Why did we go to Primark

Hannah 4:45

because I wanted some bedsheets maybe it’s filling material myself. Yeah, I wanted to new bedsheets. You also cannot I’m not going to take all the blame if you also already going for some reason.

Brandee 4:57

So looking for

Hannah 5:00

Wait, I feel like you were also because we were like, Oh, we’re both going to prime out, let’s go together.

Brandee 5:07

And we’re kind of surprised that the other person was going, yeah.

Hannah 5:10

And then our friend Ellie, who was with us was like, You guys shopping, Primark.

Brandee 5:15

I feel like what’s

Hannah 5:16

afterwards?

Brandee 5:17

I don’t remember the times that I have gone there, I was looking for something specific, some kind of basic that I knew I would find there. Because it can be hard to find a specific item from a sustainable brand or secondhand.

Hannah 5:29

Yeah, I can’t remember what you were looking for it. But

Brandee 5:33

I know that I walked out with a memory foam topper for my bed. Okay. Yeah, I’m actually very uncomfortable. And that is one of areas that compromise a bit for, I want comfort, and those things are really expensive.

Hannah 5:48

Yeah. Can you get that from a sustainable brand?

Brandee 5:53

I think they exist. I think I did look it up. And it was a struggle to find one that shipped here. That was also affordable. Okay, so I did look into it.

Hannah 6:07

I feel like that’s a hard thing with fast fashion in general. And you know, why it’s or fast fashion or fast shopping? I don’t know, buy bedsheets and just stuff that, you know, is not necessary from the most sustainable source is just Yes, the convenience of being able to go somewhere. And have everything there. And also be sold to I guess, if that happened in the case of your bed topper? Yeah. That was an impulse buy. Yeah, I would definitely. Remember. It was definitely the impulse buy was it was a good impulse buy?

Brandee 6:43

Yes, I think in the future, an upgrade would be a smaller the sustainable options and thicker. It’s nice, but it’s on the inside raise to thicker ones. But again, it was costs that that on ones are cheaper, and was working with the means at the time.

Hannah 6:59

And I guess an interesting point was, which I don’t think is wrong, but you were prioritizing your personal comfort over the most sustainable option? Would that be fair? Is that fair?

Brandee 7:11

Prioritizing comfort and cost, at the same time over my desire to support sustainable brands?

Hannah 7:22

Okay, do you think he would just be one or the other, you would have also been convinced? Or do you think it was having the mix of cost and comfort?

Brandee 7:32

I’m always on the lookout for for comfort. So when I identify a need for something I had already started, I think research and the sustainable option. So I in my head was like, Oh, this is the thing that I want. And I saw it at a low price. A lower price than I had. I’ve been saying. Yeah. And that triggered the impulse.

Hannah 7:55

Which, by the way, I don’t think the question wasn’t like, I don’t think that’s a bad thing. Right? I think it’s good that we identify, yes, what makes us kind of not fall into that trap. I don’t think that’s necessarily fair. But we but it is good to identify the things that pull us into making certain choices around what we buy, and where we buy them. Right? And how powerful those choices are in the moment, or like how Powell like what, how do you act in those considerations, as opposed to anything as well, because a lot of the time, I mean, you’ve been able to sort of identify where that came from. But I think a lot of the time, we can’t even identify what is the underlying pool,

Brandee 8:44

right? And then the example of Primark and specifically here in Spain, I had a friend that joked, that was just what you did on weekends, you would go out for a meal, have a nice long lunch, and you just go to Primark or shopping. And then you go to a terrace and have a drink like that. It’s just part of a weekend routine.

Hannah 9:05

Yeah, it’s an interesting one. Because I would say this is I was gonna say, like, when I this is the first time I’ve lived somewhere, it’s so accessible to shop, because I live in the center. And maybe what if you lived somewhere further away? You wouldn’t shop so often. Like, general you? I mean, I to be fair, I don’t shop very often. But for example, going up, you know, how you had to take a bus trip because we lived out? Well, we didn’t live in a suburb but but you know, we didn’t live in the center where all the shops or

Brandee 9:38

I think there’s a difference between when we were growing up and living somewhere, you know, far from shopping centers, malls, whatever you want to call them. And now we can order anything online. Look at Amazon, and other similar companies that just a click of a button.

Hannah 9:52

Yeah, that is 100% true, which in one way is really positive for sustainable brands. Because I would say I think Most brands that, you know, for example, when there’s a couple of like clothing mounds that I know, I don’t think they have bricks and mortar shops, they only online that’s a good point. So in a way it’s really benefited sustainability market to be able to have lower against lower physical costs or like more overhead lower. Thank you very much lucky Business Statement. Vocabulary I don’t know. But yeah, that’s something that’s like, able to support sustainable businesses.

Brandee 10:39

Yes. But they’re still competing with the lower cost. like Amazon, one of the popular types of blog posts I see online are alternatives to Amazon, whether you’re looking for books, clothing.

Hannah 10:50

Yeah. I think it’s something I wrote something that I really struggle with his. But I’m just a bit chaotic. I think in this way. We’re quite different people. And so I think I’m just like, I have my head. I’m like, Okay, I’m going to get this thing, but I don’t really like do any research and then like, months go by and I’m like, okay, shit like today I need to get bedsheets. Because I’m out. Believe me to get out but but you know what I mean? It’s like, okay, like Yeah, I mean, I can’t put on the laundry. So I’ve got to go my compression it. Well, I’m making me sound so lazy, which you know, it’s kind of part of as well, right? That’s, that’s part of it.

Brandee 11:36

And I’ve actually also bought shoes from Primark, I bought their linen sheets when I when I bought it, I made the justification to myself, that older linen there and there are more sustainable material. Cotton has issues, pesticides, water use, linen is more sustainable long term, but I didn’t pay the fair price for it. Gone at sea and look at one sheets made in made in a fair, ethical way. The true cost of linen bedsheets or not, but what 1015 years I spent on them. Yeah, that can easily cost you over 100.

Hannah 12:19

Do you think mode quite disconnected from the true cost of our purchases?

Brandee 12:23

Yes, absolutely. We walk down the streets, go on our phones, we see ads all the time, we see and talk to our friends who who buy things in the fast retail, let’s get more general than just fast fashion. And it becomes just becomes so ingrained in you, you don’t think to question it? Because why would you?

Hannah 12:44

Yeah. And I think in some ways that can go back to? Well, I don’t know, I’m going to say, I’ll talk about myself. And I will say I take me quite a long time to realize that I really struggle with paying more money for clothes. Because growing up, we didn’t have a ton of money for clothes. And so what I remember is like a teenager, it was for my parents, maybe like once or twice a year, we get like a big Primark call. And like, you know, it was just about getting like as much as you can for the amount of money you have to spend. And then the other thing that I did as a teenager, which I then stopped doing, when I got more money was I always had to lose a charity shops, I brought a lot of secondhand things. And that’s how I, how I brought more things that I wanted. But I think that’s left me as an adult really struggling, like genuinely, I’m like, oh my goodness, it’s like more than like 20 euros, or 20 pounds. Like that’s so expensive. And that’s nothing and I mean, even in the case of like fast fashion, that’s nothing. But it’s that thing, there’s like those kind of like, we have these emotional connections around like money and around fashion and around, you know, like, all you know, how we want to decorate our house. It’s like, all of these kind of things, and then influence you in that kind of, you know, brands are quite good at like pulling on those emotional moments and being like, okay, look, here’s that thing that you want. Here’s your like, you know, bed protector thing. Here’s your you know, that in bed sheets,

Brandee 14:18

insert thing that’s going to solve problems.

Hannah 14:21

Exactly. And then and especially when they can offer you at a price point, which obviously doesn’t include like, doesn’t really reflect what this item should cost. But it is within like, it doesn’t set up that trigger warning, right? I think for me, I mean, I’m working harder to raise it. But I think there’s still quite like a low price bracket, which is like, Oh, this is fine. And I can buy like five t shirts that cost like 20 years each. But God forbid it’s 30 years like now I’m like That’s That’s an expensive t shirt. You know? I don’t really know I’m going with this I’m just reflecting is Yeah, help me

Brandee 15:01

talking about how you’re brought up is a huge factor into how you enter your your spending habits. And I think it’s also an incredible privilege to live your values. But specifically in the case of Primark, fast fashion, best retail to vote with your dollar and the accessibility for sustainable brands like organic basics, i love them i on some other things. But yeah, it’s like 50 euros for a T shirt.

Hannah 15:30

Mm hmm. And there’s also size inclusive inclusivity because I remember I think even that brand, I remember you recommended me one brand. And I looked and I was like, nothing there. It’s gonna fit me.

Brandee 15:42

Yeah. And Shelbizlee on YouTube, she ranks sustainability brands. And that was, that was why organic basics didn’t get top marks from her because it was not size inclusive. Yeah, it takes all the other boxes come on organic basics. Yeah. It’s it resizes.

Hannah 15:58

But yeah, it’s a really interesting one, obviously. And the thing is that I’m quite an interesting point, because I’m so I’m like a UK size 18, maybe. So that’s us, 14, and European, like 46, let’s throw out all the sizes. And so that means I’m like the top and of like, what’s considered, quote, unquote, normal, making very big air quotes here. And like the bottom end of plus size, so that means that a lot of the time and I spent, especially night, most of the time with fast fashion brands, and within their normal range at the top end, and it depends on the country in Spain, sometimes I’m like, sized out because people are here slimmer, but I would say in the UK, I wouldn’t be that would definitely still be assizes in the shops. And then when I look at, you know, I have brought from some like sustainable fashion brands, for example, I bought a few things from thought clothing. But I’m like, right at the top, and it’s like it’s cuts off at an at. And that’s it. You know, you’re done. And I’m like, not even really put sighs

Brandee 17:10

Yeah, so what we’re getting at here, is there a lot of factors that go into the purchase you make, why you would decide to? If you are aware of why you’re purchasing a certain way that would go into that decision? Yeah, sometimes you’re not even thinking about and other times you’re, you’re able to pinpoint exactly why you’re choosing this brand over another.

Hannah 17:32

I don’t know, this gray filler.

Brandee 17:35

It’s it’s yeah. Okay, so premark it’s so affordable. Now, a lot of people, it’s so convenient. It’s trendy, especially depending on age group or your end, especially if you’re a teenager, I remember when I was at dressing like your peers is huge. And that’s where they’re all shopping where they’re all getting their clothes or similar stores like Zara

Hannah 18:03

h&m. Yeah, I mean, by the way, almost High Street retailers? Yeah, probably not ticking all the boxes.

Brandee 18:12

Yeah. So there’s a lot working against you in making sustainable purchases. What do you think

Hannah 18:18

about? Well, for example, when I was in Primark class, they had a section, which is very much kind of aimed at sustainable stuff. And really, I mean, it’s kind of an interesting one, because it’s, it’s also a style thing, right? Like, I went into this section, and I immediately know, oh, this is that like, sustainable section? You know, it’s a lot of like, why it’s a neutral color of my word. And, you know, all very minimalist. I think the prices were a little bit higher as well, I don’t not much still not what you would be paying if you went to a brand that was exclusively or intending to be a sustainable brand. Would you call that greenwashing? Do you think it’s a good idea? How can we make businesses do it? Take it seriously.

Brandee 19:11

It depends depends on the business and what they’re doing and how they’re doing it. I think in the case of Primark and these other fast fashion brands and other stores, basically, anyone who sells things and is seeing this as a trend people are starting to care more for they can’t quite afford it. Tiger does this to a shop that has, I don’t know, random basically like a if you’re in the states have a nice version of like $1 store, things are more than $1. It’s the variety of just random crap. Yeah, basically,

Hannah 19:42

but a very addictive, yes.

Brandee 19:44

All these stores, they’re seeing this trend of people caring more about the environment and wanting to vote with their dollar, but they don’t have a lot of dollars. So a lot of them do use greenwashing as a way to make sales As a way to get you to buy their product by saying, Oh, look, we use the sustainable material. Okay, who made it? Where was it made? And why does it still cost? Only, you know, 15 euros or whatever it is?

Hannah 20:11

Yeah. And, you know, I think I want to try and be realistic about this. And I think I don’t think, you know, the high street or your online retailers aren’t gonna go away. So what can we do? In the world we live in to sort of make retailers take that shift to make a shift in a genuine way. Is it possible?

Brandee 20:38

I think they need to hear from, from us, the customers, the consumers by demanding more transparency.

Hannah 20:46

Do you think that’s an action you’re gonna take this week? And then I might,

Brandee 20:51

that’s an action that I think I’ve been meaning to take for a long time. And I have avoided that. I don’t really know why. And I’ve instead, either not bought something, or just gone with a sustainable brand.

Hannah 21:03

It feels like quite a high. It’s an interesting one, I was gonna say it feels like quite like a high effort task, because you have to think about what you want to write. And it also feels overwhelming. It’s like, do you just like, Who do you write to? You know, who do you write it? Send it. Who do you send a tweet to? Oh, my God, I’m like, That was terrific. This is why Brandee does that social media.

Brandee 21:34

Follow us on Instagram at the tea on sustainable living.

Hannah 21:43

But you don’t want I mean, I guess it feels like kind of high effort. But then maybe it’s also that add that element of you as an individual. It’s kind of like, well, Primark, h&m, Zara, they’re not going to listen to me, like, what’s the point?

Brandee 21:57

And I think for me, there’s also an element of, well, I still shop there sometimes. So who am I to? To write to them? tweak them in demand? changed, man, transparency demand anything? What I’m giving them my money.

Hannah 22:11

All right. So it’s kind of a little bit like almost being stopped by the girl. Yeah,

Brandee 22:17

there is guilt.

Hannah 22:19

Yeah. Hmm. Interesting. I feel like this is another episode. Yeah. Definitely. Could be Yeah, guilt around how we live and how that stops us, you know, not being perfect. But let’s Why don’t we give it a go this week? And also you the listener?

Brandee 22:40

Yeah, I think I want to, I’m sure there are people who have done this blog about it. I’m sure there are resources online for how to how to write to a brand.

Hannah 22:51

Yeah, for sure. For sure. Okay, so we’re gonna have a look for one. We should probably have done that before today. But whatever. Let’s roll with it. We’ll put it in our show notes. Yep. And we’re gonna each choose a show each choose. A branded contact. Yeah. Like you’re not with let y’all know how it goes.

Brandee 23:13

Yeah. And a few weeks, and some other things I’ve been thinking about as well. It’s too. I used to be so good at. And I still do. Yeah, I’m not as good at this anymore as looking for a second hand. Option first.

Hannah 23:28

Mm hmm. Yeah.

Brandee 23:29

I think we’re, I’ve gotten off track with that is not finding something right away.

Hannah 23:35

Yeah. Instant gratification. Yeah. Heavy, heavy, heady, potent.

Brandee 23:42

And, again, I mentioned this before, when I know why I want or need something. It’s in my brain. So if I see it somewhere else, I’m likely to buy it. If I know I want to need something and I’m looking for it online and not finding it. It feels like this need this to do list this thing I need to like cross off. That makes sense.

Hannah 24:01

I think I mean, I think I do the same but in a different way. Like I already mentioned, I guess I think I just have in my brain and I’m like, Okay, I’m gonna need this thing. And I should look up somewhere sustainable and I just like put it off and off and off and then I’m just like, Fuck it like I’m gonna buy this thing and then I’m gonna buy like 10 More things because I’ve already fallen off the bridge so let’s just, you know, go all the way

Brandee 24:26

another thing I was thinking about so my boss for your right to a brand, trying to look secondhand first and me doing like a reset having like a no buy. Month. I know there are people who have done like no buy yours.

Hannah 24:40

There’s a isn’t there like a month September? It’s like a secondhand September or something like that up?

Brandee 24:50

I don’t think you have. We’ve definitely missed that one. Yeah, you can do it at any time. So maybe that would be helpful for me because I Do you have a past of only shopping like fast fashion and buying things for fun? I mean, I grew up going to the mall on weekends and shopping as a hobby.

Hannah 25:11

Yeah, I don’t think I ever did that. Really? We I never really. Yeah. The only time I did that was in secondhand stores. Stores. I’m so American was so embarrassing. I was like hiring myself when we recover the last episode saying I’m in brand new apartment. I was like, What am I doing? Anyway?

Brandee 25:34

That is something that got me out of my shopping addiction, I guess is giving myself freedom in secondhand shops. I’m still satisfy like, whatever desire was to buy things. The whole it’s all secondhand. Yeah, so it’s fine. Is the best gnome. So buying things I don’t necessarily need. But to me, that’s better than the alternative of buying all the things. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And one more option on leave the listeners with his documentary The true cost, if you want to dive more into the WHO behind your clothing?

Hannah 26:12

Yeah. Yeah, I think that’s a really important element. Because there’s it’s now subscription only, but there’s a really good website called the ethical consumer, though, right? Yeah. Yeah. And it’s only it’s too much. I think it’s like 30 pounds a year. But the one thing that’s quite interesting about them is so they go through looking at different different brands, retailers, and they have it in four categories. So it’s like, I can’t remember all of them. But one is sustainability. But it’s also about people, I think, the environment that come under sustainability. I don’t know, I can’t remember. But it basically, everyone’s going to have slightly different parameters about what they’re going to get. What’s the priority for them when making their choices? Is it about who’s making the clothes? Or is it about? Is it local to them? Is it about the impact they’re having on the environment? So that rates companies on quite a few different elements, so you can decide which one is the most important for you?

Brandee 27:20

Because not many brands will take all the boxes. So that’s a good point of choosing the thing that’s most important to you, whether it’s the material, the WHO, yeah, whatever it is for you. All right. So lots of options, lots of actionable things that you can do. Choose Your Own Adventure, if you will. And we’ll leave them all in the show notes. And yeah, I think both of us will start with the writing to a brand.

Hannah 27:45

Yeah, and Tweet us on Instagram. That’s good. All right.

Brandee 27:56

Thank you for listening, give us shooters, and we’ll catch you in the next one. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of the tea on sustainable living podcast.

Hannah 28:05

If you made it to the end, we can only assume that you’ve enjoyed this episode.

Brandee 28:09

Please consider sharing this with a friend or family member who could use some support on their sustainability journey.

Hannah 28:15

And find us on Instagram at the tea on sustainable living and let us know what you liked about the episode.

Brandee 28:20

Alright, Give-a-Shitters, tea you later. Get it? Tea you later? As in, see you later? So punny. Whyyy?

Transcribed by https://otter.ai